Optimizing Value When Selling An Aircraft​

Tony Kioussis (00:42):
jetAVIVA was founded in 2006 by two childhood best friends, Cyrus Sigari and Ben Marcus. It was their dream to create the greatest aircraft sales organization in the world and jetAVIVA has grown to become the world’s number one light jet sales company, having helped thousands of people enter jet ownership. Joining me today is jetAVIVA’s is president Dustin Cordier, widely recognized for his sales and leadership role as a former sales executive with Cessna Citation and Embraer Executive Jets, we asked Dustin to discuss jetAVIVA’s successful approach to aircraft acquisitions and sales.

Tony Kioussis (01:20):
Welcome to our educational podcast series, Dustin. Let’s first cover a little bit about you and how you ended up at jetAVIVA.

Dustin Cordier (01:28):
well, as you mentioned in the intro there, I was with Cessna and Embraer Air prior to jetAVIVA. I actually got started in aviation through the Air Force. I went to the Air Force Academy, flew KC-135s and Lear 35s, the C-21, for 10 years. And then when I got out, I was hired by Flight Safety. I managed their Bombardier product line out of their Tucson learning center. And when Citation, Cessna Citation, introduced the Mustang, they increased their sales force and I was one of the initial Mustang sales reps. Ended up kind of working my way through the ranks there. Was the VP of all the Southeast for their aviation assets and then over to Embraer when they introduced the Legacy 500. And I’ve been with jetAVIVA now for five years.

Tony Kioussis (02:23):
Let’s assume I’m someone that’s chartered an aircraft for a while, perhaps even owned a fractional share. How do you go about determining the optimal aircraft to meet my needs?

Dustin Cordier (02:33):
What I would start with is just very simple, Tony, it’s what are you trying to do and why? And I think as that gets answered, you get to the real meat behind what you’re trying to solve. There are your typical things that I’m going to look for. For instance, obviously budget is very important and there’s three areas in the budget that are important. Not only is the acquisition cost important, but the annual spend on the operating costs. What does it actually take to pay for this airplane? Cashflow on a month to month basis? And then the final part, which is really the biggest part of the budget equation is the total cost of ownership. When I go to dispose of this airplane, what’s left? That can be the biggest variable there. Understanding the timeframe of ownership is really the biggest component to that.

Dustin Cordier (03:25):
Then of course, what are you trying to do? Really falls into the payload and range and performance of the airplane. Are you trying to go out of small fields or into small fields that have a lot of weather, icing, et cetera that need to be considered? Or you go into large areas. How far are you going? Is it a regional? Is it a corner to corner airplane? Which would be a Miami to Seattle or New York LA, corner to corner? Or is it a global aircraft? Are you trying to get to Europe? Are you trying to get to Singapore? Those factors all play into it.

Dustin Cordier (04:03):
It’s amazing when you’re talking with somebody, how the digging into the why question brings out other aspects of what the motivation is behind the purchase. And so a lot of times I’ll ask something simple like, “Hey, close your eyes. You have your ideal airplane sitting in your hanger. What is it?” They may not even say a civilian airplane. They may say an F15 or something like that, which at least gives me a clue of what the motivation is behind the sale. An aircraft purchase always, and I don’t care if you’re a high net worth individual or a board member on a Fortune size company, there’s always an emotional aspect to owning the aircraft. Discovering all the pieces of what’s motivating somebody behind wanting to purchase really play a factor in addition with the logical and data pieces as well.

Tony Kioussis (04:57):
The motivation piece is really interesting. Something I’ve always found interesting are the factors a buyer should consider in determining whether they should purchase a new or an in service aircraft. Tell us how jetAVIVA deals with that thought process.

Dustin Cordier (05:12):
It’s really interesting because I’ve been on both sides of this equation. I’ve worked for two of the OEMs, two of the manufacturers selling specifically new aircraft only and then now I’m in a world where the majority of my sales or acquisitions are in the pre-owned side or in service side. We still get people that prefer new aircraft. Why would someone choose new versus in-service? Most of it has to do with peace of mind. For the majority of individuals, the aircraft purchase is one of the largest purchases they’ll ever make. The number is there that it’s not the kind of purchase you want to mess up. And so some people I think prefer to know the whole history of the airplane and would like that history to start at zero. They’d like it to start with them. Straight off the factory line with the factory guarantees and warranties behind it. It’s just a very strong piece of mind, value equation.

Dustin Cordier (06:15):
Others prefer to purchase aircraft either for budget reasons. They want the airplane, but prefer not to pay the price of a new aircraft or they’re trying to buy something that’s further down the depreciation curve because depreciation on an aircraft is steepest in its first five years. Like you said, it ties back into the motivation. I’d say there’s two real motivations on the new side, peace of mind being number one. And number two, just the experience of owning a new aircraft. The manufacturers are phenomenal at making purchasing a new aircraft, a very personalized and intimate experience. And sometimes that’s the preference of the buyer to go through that.

Tony Kioussis (06:57):
I can see the value for a first time buyer to use an experienced entity like jetAVIVA to acquire an aircraft. Discuss the benefits of using an acquisition consultant for someone already operating an aircraft.

Dustin Cordier (07:11):
It’s an unregulated industry. If you go to some of the more popular sites and trying to research an airplane, I would say a good percentage of what you see out there may not be accurate or it may just be people trying to make their phones ring by saying an aircraft is for sale. What are you doing when you’re looking at a broker? You’ve already gone through this process before so yes, you’re more familiar with the process, but if you’ve gone through it before, you know how complex it can be. You’re really investing in that broker’s knowledge. You’re investing in that broker’s network and you’re saving yourself an incredible amount of time. If you’re working with a specialized broker like jetAVIVA where all our sales team specializes in individual lines of aircraft, we can do in a fraction of the time what it would take someone, even an informed buyer, to go out and comb the market.

Dustin Cordier (08:10):
In fact, one of my very good clients, when we first met, he had sold his business. He was very what you would call a detailed buyer. Spreadsheet galore, loved doing the research, all of that was part of the fun. And on his initial aircraft, this is how we connected. He’s done two aircraft transactions since then and has used our firm for that. Not because he can’t do it, because he’s very familiar with the process. It’s just the amount of time savings that you’re talking about. One of the airplanes we bought him was international. We imported it from Europe. There’s just the details there, a professional broker deals with on a daily basis, where this may something once, twice, three times in a lifetime, an individual purchaser or corporate purchaser would deal with. It’s the knowledge, it’s the network and it’s the, time savings why somebody would use a pro.

Tony Kioussis (09:09):
How does your firm handle the various services required during the acquisition process, such as legal and tax advice, personnel hiring and training? There’s a myriad of issues a new or even an existing aircraft owner must address.

Dustin Cordier (09:25):
One of the things I say to first time buyers is that sometimes purchasing an aircraft is more similar to acquiring a business than it is purchasing an automobile or a house. Just because of all the different agencies that are involved, all the regulations that you have to meet to have an aircraft on an airworthy status, the liquidity in the market is nowhere near what an automobile would be. It can be a very complex process. Our firm in particular annually, we’re in the top three for transaction volume so we have a very large infrastructure and it’s something we do all the time. And so when I say we have a large infrastructure, what does that mean to the buyer? It means that we have specialized departments to handle the different components of the acquisition.

Dustin Cordier (10:13):
If we’re for looking for an aircraft for someone, of course market analysis is going to be critical because that’s how we are going to determine aircraft pricing, where things should be. We have a separate team that handles that for us and works in conjunction with the sales directors. We also have legal and contracting in house. This is a service that we provide. Any kind of letter of intents or the actual purchase agreement can be done in house. Another component of it is the technical services. What’s meant by that? This is for records review on the aircraft, which is critically important when purchasing an aircraft that we can track all the maintenance that’s been done from inception. And then monitor the process through the inspections. For people who are unfamiliar, one of the most critical parts in an aircraft transaction is the third party mechanical inspection that takes place during the transaction. This is where we contract with a authorized service center to inspect the condition of the airplane because everybody purchasing an airplane is expecting it to be delivered in an air worthiness condition.

Dustin Cordier (11:27):
That process is a bit of esoteric magic, so to speak, because how do you know the condition of the airplane unless you start taking things apart and looking at them? This can be very in depth. To find every nook and cranny that could potentially be wrong on the airplane would just be extremely expensive because you’re taking apart the entire aircraft. Having a technical services team that’s familiar with the specific airframes, can give the client comfort, knowing that we know the trends of what to look for and what’s typical in an aircraft. Defining the scope of the inspection is an important part of the process. I think I mentioned before that we imported an airplane from Europe for a client. The import export process is also something that we can do in house. We are very, very active and do really dozens of transactions on a global basis annually. That’s handled in house as well.

Dustin Cordier (12:32):
In addition to that, we can connect you with our network for other parts of this acquisition. What would those consist of? One that we’d look at really right up front is tax. Aircrafts acquisitions could have serious tax consequences, both for the benefit of the client and to the detriment, if not done properly. Proper tax counsel upfront is critical. In addition, financing. Most people are financing aircraft, even if they can pay cash, a lot of times they prefer not to. As you know, Tony, the insurance industry right now is in a very volatile state so staying on top of insurance requirements, et cetera, is more critical than it’s ever been for aircraft acquisition.

Dustin Cordier (13:16):
Some of the things that are further down the line are how are the pilots going to get trained? Or perhaps it’s an owner pilot, how are they going to get trained? How’s escrow used for securing the transaction? Making it a neutral third party arbiter in the contract and handling all the closing activities and perhaps management of the aircraft afterwards. Those are all things that we have strong networks into and can provide for the client. It’s this combination of a in house infrastructure plus this network to make sure that all of the boxes are checked when you’re acquiring an aircraft.

Tony Kioussis (13:54):
How do you determine and justify the selected aircraft’s purchase price?

Dustin Cordier (14:00):
This is one of jetAVIVA’s biggest strengths and it’s know your markets because unlike the housing market where you can look up the tax records for every transaction that’s happened to determine the value of houses, there is no central repository that gives you the comps or the comparative aircraft pricing. How do you know your markets? There are some third party sources out there similar to a blue book like you would find on an automobile. That may be a good basis, good starting point. However, those publications, while they’re valuable in getting an overall macro view of how a market’s been trending, they tend to be quarterly publications.

Dustin Cordier (14:44):
As we’ve learned in the age of COVID a lot can change in 90 days. How does the team stay up to speed? For us internally at jetAVIVA, we have dedicated experts on each platform that are in direct contact with owners and direct contact with a network of other agents in order to help us determine the real market value of the aircraft. Now, in addition to that, I think there are other third party applications that we use to supplement our own data. While our data is proprietary to us and really the core source of where we start in identifying the valuation, then we use third party. And I think, you know a company called Asset Insight that has the ability to project where an aircraft is in their cycle.

Dustin Cordier (15:36):
In other words, if major maintenance is due on an aircraft, or if they don’t have certain level of programs on the aircraft, a program like Asset Insight can be very effective for our ability to really put the finer points on the market value of an airplane. In addition to that, it also helps us project into the future, knowing maintenance and knowing service that is going to be required. It can also help us fine point residual value of an aircraft over a certain set period of time. We spend a tremendous amount of resources in our company on keeping up with our proprietary data sources and then supplementing it with tools like Asset Insight and some other third party applications.

Tony Kioussis (16:25):
Give us a sense of the timeline between making an offer and placing a deposit into escrow for an aircraft.

Dustin Cordier (16:32):
I’d almost reversed the equation because I would like to see a deposit in escrow before we place an offer. I think it gives us a lot better leverage on a deal when a seller knows that a purchaser is serious because overall the aviation market is a relatively small fishbowl compared to other worlds, automobiles, houses, financial services. If some company discounts a washing machine in California, it’s not going to tank the washing machine market in New York City. However, on aircraft, if somebody sells an airplane in California or Malaysia, it will impact the entire market. Sellers are very wary of being shopped. In other words, brokers are trying to go out there and just determine where the level of the market is or what a seller would actually take on an airplane. They may be hesitant to give the real pricing or to even give hints of, or expectations of where a strike price might be reached. And I think one of the things in showing a serious commitment to a sale is having that deposit in escrow upfront so that there’s a level of comfort there that the transaction is legitimate.

Tony Kioussis (17:57):
Tell us about jetAVIVA’s process for establishing and overseeing a successful, detailed inspection of the aircraft, the pre-purchase inspection, if you will. Always a key event for the purchaser of a previously owned aircraft.

Dustin Cordier (18:11):
There are many good brokers out there that do it all. They oversee a transaction, the sales part of it, the technical part of it, that work with their partners on escrow, et cetera. We’re a little bit different there. We actually have a technical services team. The head of that team was the director of maintenance for CVS and ended up becoming the director of aviation for Textron Corporate. Some of your listeners may be familiar with the term MSG-3, if you’re not, it’s a benchmark for best practices in maintenance activity on the aircraft. He is also a member on a steering committee for MSG-3 practices. He heads up our technical services team. Several of our sales directors are former pilots or former engineers or in my case and in some of others, both. I was a mechanical engineer along with being an Air Force pilot.

Dustin Cordier (19:12):
I have a pretty good idea of how to go about approaching inspection. But even still, before I comment on anything, I send the information off to our head of technical services, Rick Sylvia and ask for his input on the work scope for the inspection. If we’re on the opposite side of the transaction where we’re selling and we’re responding to the work scope from a buyer, Rick is helping us make sure that the scope is reasonable. How do we determine that? Well, we typically, we get some sort of access to previous records on the airplane, like a camp report or assess comm or flight docs, et cetera. There’s numerous sources for tracking the aircraft maintenance and determining where the airplane is in its cycle. And with that, that we can determine the proper scope of the inspection. Once the scope is agreed to and the inspection is underway, our technical services team is having daily meetings with the service center to discuss the findings that are out there on the aircraft.

Dustin Cordier (20:20):
And this is something for your listeners that aren’t as familiar with this, they’re staying on top of the service center. Thousands of dollars can be saved in this process. The service centers are very good and they’re also very busy, even when the COVID was at its peak, the maintenance, the MROs were busy because aircraft were being worked on because they weren’t out there flying. They were getting maintenance done that they could get done. And so just to make sure that you’re receiving that attention, we have daily check ins with the service center to monitor progress. On every single deal this ability to monitor the process very closely on a daily basis, saves our clients thousands of dollars. And sometimes it’s hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Dustin Cordier (21:10):
We had a borescope on an engine come back that we were purchasing that showed some cracks that when we sent off to the engine manufacturer, the whole repair process was about $400,000. We took a look at the borescope, like I said, being an engineer and a pilot, we kind of noticed upfront that the borescope didn’t look as, the quality of it was not great. We actually hired our own team to go redo a borescope, sent this data off through our network on what the maximum liability would be and found out it was under a $150,000. And so we went to the seller and we said, “Hey, we won’t blow this up if you’re willing to discount by 400,000.” And that was agreed to, and we ended up having that repair when it was all said and done for about 75 grand. It’s not a typical case, but there are cases out there when you’re using a company that has very informed technical services that you have these opportunities to make some big savings during the inspection process.

Tony Kioussis (22:20):
Mistakes on the maintenance side can be quite expensive, as we both know.

Dustin Cordier (22:24):
Once a contract closes, most contracts are as is, where is. Once it closes, if you miss something, you missed it. It’s very important to be diligent, not only on the records prior to the inspection, but throughout the entire inspection process, to the finish and verifying all the steps are done.

Tony Kioussis (22:42):
How long does it normally take from a signed offer to the transaction closing?

Dustin Cordier (22:49):
Tony, that can be dependent just on the situation. For instance, in the COVID era, we’ve seen some people because some prices were attractive, that they bought the airplane on site. Signed offer, visual inspection and test flight and it was done in less than a week. Again, that’s not typical. If financing is involved, insurance of course is involved, and contracting is involved, you’re probably looking at something from five to 10 business days, just on contracting, depending the size of the transaction. And then as you get into the inspection period, depending on the size of the aircraft, the age of the aircraft, you could be anywhere from 10 business days to 30 business days, depending on how much of the inspection has to be done. I think average time in a vanilla transaction, if there is such a thing, you’re probably looking at somewhere around 45 days. I think 30 to 60 days is probably a good window to have, but it’s really dependent on the situation.

Tony Kioussis (23:54):
Are there different drivers or time periods one should consider as to when to replace an aircraft that was acquired new as opposed to one that was in service when the current owner acquired it?

Dustin Cordier (24:09):
Having been on the new side of sales, working directly for the manufacturers, one of the largest drivers for replacement and one of really the largest reasons people buy new aircraft as opposed to in service aircraft is for the depreciation. In other words, the company has a large depreciation need that the aircraft is filling and as that cycle matures, then they look for a replacement. Currently that’s typically, if it’s a noncommercial used aircraft, it’s a five year cycle and if it is commercial it’s a seven year cycle. That’s typically what you’ll see on new aircraft for the replacement. It’s largely driven by depreciation. For something that’s in service already, there’s a lot more motivations to drive a replacement cycle. There are factors like major maintenance coming up. It may be a large inspection or gear overhaul or an engine overhaul that the seller just doesn’t want to go into, or it could be and this is in many cases, the business needs have changed.

Dustin Cordier (25:18):
Was once meeting 90% of the mission requirements or even a 100% of the mission requirements, is now only meeting 60 to 70% of the mission requirements and it’s just not making sense. Unlike some other equipment like a boat or some other recreational vehicle, an aircraft is really a tool for efficiency. And I call it a tool for human efficiency. When I was in the Air Force, we had a concept called force multiplier and this is really what an airplane does for a business. If you’re no longer able to meet the needs of the business, then you’re not getting the efficiency out of the asset that you need. And again, you’re going to hit me for plugging Asset Insight, but that’s a tool that can actually help you predict based on market values, when might be the best time in an aircraft cycle to replace it in order to maximize your residual value?

Dustin Cordier (26:15):
If you bring an airplane that’s not an engine programs all the way to a run out engine time, meaning that the engine overhaul is due immediately, you’re going to take quite a hit on the sale. But if you plan it at more of a strategic time where you still have plenty of value left in the aircraft, then your residual value won’t take such a hit and it’s a better time for replacement. Again, using a third party tool like that to assist in optimizing the time to replace it is important.

Tony Kioussis (26:44):
What strategies would you recommend that owners consider in order to optimize the value of their asset while they own the aircraft and during the disposition process itself?

Dustin Cordier (26:56):
I really like this question because I think it’s something that perhaps doesn’t get thought about enough. What are items that owners can do to help them on the backside of the transaction? If you’re a small business owner or a high net worth individual that has an aircraft, if you don’t have the proper time to manage the airplane, hire someone. It’s worth the couple grand a month to have a professional manage the airplane, just to make sure you’re not missing things that you should be missing. I would definitely recommend having it on some form of electronic maintenance tracking so that you don’t miss any maintenance events and that pulling up the records of your maintenance history is easy. There are programs out there that ensure the life of the engine and even the parts on the airplane that I think are attractive to buyers. Again, not knowing the whole spectrum of everyone that’s listening out there, but these are typically called power by the hour programs.

Dustin Cordier (28:01):
In this case, an owner would report their hours on a monthly basis and then the manufacturer would send them an invoice for the amount of hours that they’d flown in that month. And so what does that invoice go towards? It’s towards the life of the engine and on the parts of the airplane. Instead of doing things willy nilly or as they fail, so you may land somewhere, you have a fault on your aircraft and you find out that the windshield needs to be replaced. Well, this can be a 40, 50, $60,000 event that a business sometimes doesn’t want to have those uneven cash flows coming in as parts on the aircraft fail. But by investing in this power by the hour, if that happens and you do have a windshield fail, well, it’s going to be zero out of pocket because you’ve been paying as you go along.

Dustin Cordier (28:54):
Some people are wary because of car warranty programs or refrigerator warranty programs or house warranty programs that they feel are just high margin items that they don’t get a value out of. I would say that that’s not the case in aircraft, especially turbine aircraft. These engines, which is the most expensive part of the airplane, to know that you have, if something goes wrong with that engine, that it’s replaced with nothing out of pocket. That’s very attractive, not only for your own peace of mind in knowing that you won’t have a crazy cashflow situation, but it’s especially important to a buyer who knows that if something happens when they buy it, because whatever’s mechanical can break. Doesn’t matter how well it was cared for. It’s just the nature of mechanics. To know that there’s this assurance behind it. Being on an engine and a parts program is very attractive.

Dustin Cordier (29:45):
Of course, how the airplane is maintained, certainly in a hangar, if you’re in a high saltwater area that it’s washed on a very frequent basis. Even things like just cleaning the cabin and cockpits after every flight. I’m in airplanes almost on a daily basis, I think if you talk to most people that have been doing this for a while like I have, you can get in an airplane and in about 30 seconds, know the kind of attention the owner paid into the aircraft’s care. And paint and interior, refreshing them on a periodic basis, I think that helps you greatly on your residual value. And if I haven’t emphasized it enough, just strong documentation of everything that’s being done. That ties in with the electronic maintenance tracker that I mentioned before, but documentation is everything there. Those are some simple things that owners can do to preserve their residual value and really help the liquidity on the airplane when they go to sell.

Tony Kioussis (30:47):
We’ve been operating an aircraft for a while and decide to replace it. What does an aircraft broker bring to the table when it’s time to sell the aircraft?

Dustin Cordier (30:57):
I think this is very similar on why somebody who’s bought an airplane would use a broker on their second aircraft that they’re buying or third aircraft, et cetera. Same thing on the selling side. In this portion here, along with the knowledge and the network and the time savings that a broker would provide, I think the other part of this equation here is in the marketing of the aircraft. We have a dedicated marketing team that is very proficient at photography, videography, social media, all these different channels to market your aircraft. Marketing becomes very important. The other part of that is the sales side of it. As any aircraft owner knows, as soon as they hint at wanting to sell an airplane, they will be bombarded with emails and phone calls from people trying to sniff out whatever information they can get from that owner, whether they have an active buyer or not.

Dustin Cordier (32:02):
It’s extremely time consuming. And like we mentioned, through all the inspection processes, it’s a complex process. It’s just not something that a person typically wants to manage on their own. Especially if it’s something that they’re doing two, three, four times as opposed to a company that does it every day. From a sales structure, that can be important as well. jetAVIVA has a unique sales structure where our sales team of 12 sales reps, everyone when we have a listing, everyone has access into selling that aircraft. It’s not just one sales director’s to get the aircraft sold but the entire team is incented to help that aircraft move. That can be another advantage for hiring a broker.

Tony Kioussis (32:49):
jetAVIVA has definitely carved out a niche for itself within the business aviation community. Is there anything that we haven’t discussed that you want people specifically to know about your company?

Dustin Cordier (33:00):
I’m really proud of the team that we’ve developed at jetAVIVA. Our infrastructure and our capabilities for data analysis are really strong. And I think when it really comes down to it, knowledge is power when you’re trying to get the best deal on an aircraft, especially when you consider your total cost of ownership is going to be most directly tied into your residual value when you sell. Buying an airplane right and getting the most out of it when you sell are big and data plays a huge part. I would also say we’re unique to the industry in that our sales team is specialized. And so what do I mean by that?

Dustin Cordier (33:40):
Prior to coming to jetAVIVA five years ago, I was working for Embraer on their sales team and sold their Phenom line, their Legacy line all the way through the Lineage. My role and my responsibility on the jetAVIVA team is to stay up to speed on the Embraer markets. That’s more than just knowing what’s the price of the last Phenom 100 to sell? That’s knowing what’s going on in the service centers. That’s what’s trending with the aircraft, perhaps on a maintenance side. It’s knowing people within Embraer’s organization so that if we run into roadblocks, I know where to go to get the quickest answer on that. And so how does that translate out into the marketplace?

Dustin Cordier (34:28):
If you’re talking with one of our sales directors and you have a great relationship with that person, that’s the person you’re going to deal with because relationships are paramount. However, if that person is not a Embraer expert on the backside of that deal, I’m the person who’s going to be working that. That’s a differentiation point from other brokerage houses because it’s just hard to be an expert in every single airframe that’s out there. Will I sell you a King Air? Absolutely I’ll sell you a King Air, but you’ll be dealing with me on the discovery part through the process and I will have our King Air expert running everything in the background because they know the airplane so much better and you just get the best service that way.

Dustin Cordier (35:12):
And then having our legal and our technical services in house, that does a lot more than just save you money by not having to hire external agencies for that, it just makes the whole process so efficient because the communication is so much more streamlined. We’ve been around since 2006. If you look at the jetAVIVA team, you just see diversity across the whole team, not only in the sales directors, but all the way through our leadership levels. And that kind of diversity is something that we’ve been intentional about since our start. And it makes us such a stronger team. When you’re sitting in a senior leadership meeting and you’re getting viewpoints from all different sides of the coin, you’re able to make better decisions. And I think that’s something that’s been critical to our growth.

Dustin Cordier (36:05):
And I would say the diversity of the team has been a big part of that. I think everybody on our team, I’m proud to say, cares. And that may seem like a given, but it’s not. To find talent that actually cares about their customer, that’s just a, it’s a huge thing that we look for in any one of our hires. It’s something that’s helped us be so successful in how we just committed to added value to the customer.

Tony Kioussis (36:38):
This has been another Asset Insight podcast covering the aircraft ownership life cycle. Please visit our ever growing podcast library at assetinsightpodcast.com and select from any number of topics discussed with business aviation industry experts. This is Tony Kioussis and as always, thank you for listening.